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Courante
Senior Member
5349 Posts |
 Posted - 11/07/2007 : 23:59:33
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The people at VMware don't openly advertise that the VMware Server application will allow you to create a new virtual machine (VM). Based on what is said on their site, they lead you to believe that it will only allow pre-configured VMs to run, whether they be server VMs or not.
I wish to apologize for not getting that tutorial up yet. My main job has increased many of my duties lately and I just haven't had any spare time between that and my side jobs as a PC Technician and Bartender. I am also gearing up for the upcoming tax season as I am also a Professional Tax Preparer. As a result, I have been away from the boards for a couple Anyway, I will see if I can get it up sometime soon. In the meantime, below is a short summary of the procedure. You don't need to setup a dual boot via the Master Boot Record (MBR), which is what Wubi does. Wubi is basically a simplified method of partitioning a portion of your hard drive for use with Ubuntu, then adding the option to boot to it via the MBR. The good thing about it is that it installs like any other application. This also makes it possible to remove it using the Add/Remove Software area of the Control Panel, or the similar area of the CCleaner application.
What you will need:
VMware Server. Download the latest version from this web page. v1.0.4 is currently the most recent version (146MB). I recommend saving the file on your desktop for easy access. Since you are working on a laptop, you will want to connect it to your home network if you have broadband available. A wired connection, rather than a wireless, will also allow for a faster download. Even my Sprint card on my ThinkPad produced an estimate of an hour and a half for the download even though it's "near broadband" speed. The same download took only five to ten minutes when I connected to my cable network at home. Also, you will have to register for one or more licenses in order to complete installation. This option is given toward the top of the download page. Registration is free, as is the software.
Ubuntu Live CD. Donwload the latest version from this web page. v7.10, also known as Gutsy Gibbon was just recently released. A desktop and server version are available, depending on what you intend to use Ubuntu for. For most purposes, the desktop version is what you need. The download is an ISO image of the Live CD and is also very large (approximately 700MB), so expect a lengthy download time and use a broadband connection if possible. It took ten to fifteen minutes on my cable network using my ThinkPad laptop via a wired connection.
Procedure:
Note: Once the ISO image of the Ubuntu Live CD is downloaded to your desktop, you can either use a CD burning application such as Nero or Roxio to burn it to an actual CD, or leave it as is. VMware Server is capable of accessing your physical CD-ROM drive or mounting an ISO image as a virtual CD-ROM drive. Either source can be used to install Ubuntu once you create a new VM.
When you are ready to begin, double-click the VMware Server installer on your desktop to begin setup. Be sure to click Run if prompted. Even though you may not be intending to use your VM as a server, you should simplify the installation process by choosing the Complete setup type over the Custom option. However, if you are prompted with a warning about the Microsoft Internet Information Services (IIS) not being detected on your system, you can skip this step if you only plan on running Ubuntu as a desktop OS. If you plan on using the server edition of Ubuntu, or otherwise setting up server software/services on the VM, you will need to follow the instructions given.
Also, you will see a message during installation about disabling your system's CD-ROM autorun. This setting helps prevents conflicts between your physical machine and the VM. If you setup the VM to use your physical CD-ROM, both OSs will attempt to autorun any inserted discs. Either leave this setting enabled to prevent such conflicts, or simply ensure that your VM is powered down when using the CD-ROM with your physical machine, or simply do not enable access to it from your VM. The choice is dependant upon your intended use of the VM.
Note: You can always mount and unmount any CD-ROM drive or ISO file when needed. For this reason, my recommendation is to uncheck this setting so that any CDs or applications (such as iTunes) using the autorun feature will continue to operate normally. If the need for accessing the CD-ROM from the VM arises, you can simply power it down, configure it to mount the drive, then power it back on.
The last page of the VMware Server Setup Wizard is where you will need to enter your free license number. Once the installation is complete, you will see a new shortcut on your desktop named VMware Server Console. The console is your main window where you can manage all your VMs as well as their settings and resources. You can access VMs located on your system, or elsewhere on your network. If you are new to virtualization and/or Ubuntu, stick to local VMs and get familiar with Ubuntu as much as possible before attempting to do anything fancy with it.
Double-click on the VMware Server Console, leave the Local host choice selected, and click OK. When the console opens, scroll down to the Configure Host icon and double-click it. Under the General tab, you can specify the location on your physical machine where the virtual machines will be stored. Remember, virtual machines are nothing more than data files that emulate physical machines. Be sure to choose a location where large files can be stored. If you have a sizable hard drive, that could be the default directory or within your My Documents directory. Alternatively, you could also use an external hard drive. However, that would limit the speed at which your VM will operate because of the USB communication. If your laptop has more than 80-100GB available, you should be good to go.
Next, click the Memory tab. Here, you can specify how much physical RAM VMware Server can allocate to your VMs. On a laptop, I would recommend a system that has at least 1GB RAM and run only one VM with Ubuntu. Ubuntu will run fine with only 256MB RAM, leaving 768MB RAM left over for your laptops OS. In most cases, this is more than enough, provided you are not running video or multimedia editing during the use of your VM. Keep in mind that this setting applies to the total available to all VMs. Again, I recommend running only VM on a laptop or desktop with limited resources. Also, be sure to leave the memory swapping option selected as it is by default.
Finally, click on the Priority tab and choose whether or not to enable background snapshots. A snapshot is basically a backup of your VM in case you should ever need to restore it to a previous time state. If you are concerned about disk space, you may want to uncheck the option. If you want to prevent the hassle of reinstalling Ubuntu if you come across a serious error, you should leave it checked.
After hitting OK, you are ready to create your first VM. Click the New Virtual Machine icon in the right hand panel. When the wizard begins, choose the Typical VM configuration and be sure to choose Linux - Ubuntu as the Guest operating system. If you wish, you can rename the VM from the default, Ubuntu. When you are prompted to choose a Network connection, you should keep the default choice of bridged networking. This will allow the VMs emulated Network Interface Card (NIC) to utilize the same physical network connection your physical machine uses.
Note: If you use wireless networking, there is no guarantee that Ubuntu will be able to communicate with your wireless adapter. Not all such devices are yet supported by Ubuntu. If this is the case, you may be able to choose host-only networking to setup a private virtual network between your physical machine and the VM. The Network Address Translation (NAT) option should only be used in conjunction with port forwarding from your router when using a virtual server to allow outside access.
The next step refers to Disk capacity. For Ubuntu, 10GB is probably the best choice, but it's your decision to make. You can also choose whether to allocate all disk space now. If you leave this option checked, the virtual hard drive file will be created and recognized by VMware Server as a partitioned drive with the size specified. Unchecking this option will create the smallest possible hard drive file. This hard drive file will increase as necessary until the disk size reaches the size you specified. While this helps reduce your actual disk space, it also slows down the performance of your VM, so I don't recommend it.
Once all these options are set and the wizard completes, the console should now display the VMs name in the left hand panel, with it's configuration displayed on the right.
Installing Ubuntu:
To use a physical Ubuntu Live CD for the installation, leave the default option of Auto detect for the CD-ROM device. Insert the Ubuntu Live CD into your drive, then select Start this virtual machine. To use the ISO image instead, click on Edit virtual machine settings and click on the CD-ROM device, or you can double-click on the CD-ROM device as displayed directly in the console. Once there, select the Use ISO image option and Browse to the ISO file on your desktop, then click OK.
After clicking Start this virtual machine, the VM should power on and the right hand panel of the console will now act as the display screen. You can click on the display to switch control over to the VM, and use the Ctrl+Alt key combination to return control to your physical machine. In the toolbar, there are three display icons that allow you to toggle on/off the left hand inventory panel, enter full screen mode, or use Quick Switch. If you choose Full Screen, the VM display takes over your entire display and you are essentially using it directly. The Quick Switch option is similar to the Full Screen mode, except the console tabs are still available at the top of the screen. Also, you can move your mouse pointer to the top of the screen to reveal the VMware toolbar and drop down menus.
Use your keyboard to select the Start or install Ubuntu option to launch the Live CD. This in effect runs Ubuntu directly from the Live CD and may take a few moments to run. Once the desktop loads, you may choose to take a few moments to familiarize yourself with its look and feel. Keep in mind that the OS is currently running off the CD/ISO file, so permanent types of changes can't be made. To enter Full Screen mode, you may have to adjust Ubuntu's screen resolution to 1024X768.When you are ready to dive right in, click the Install icon on the desktop.
When prompted for the Guided or Manual Partitioning method, save yourself some hassle and choose the Guided option. However, if you are familiar with Ubuntu and wish to create a separate partition for your user specific data files (a common practice of advanced users so that their personal data is not lost in the event of a repartition/re-installation), choose the Manual option and be sure to create the user partition at the beginning of the drive. If you plan on networking your VM with your Windows based laptop and/or home network computers, be sure to provide a different computer name than the one your laptop and other computers may be using.
Once Ubuntu finishes installing, your next step depends on whether you used the physical CD, or the ISO file. If you used the physical CD, eject it, then let the final step of the installer restart the VM. If you used the ISO file, select the option that let's you continue running off the virtual Live CD. You will have to shutdown Ubuntu yourself. Then, in the VMware Server Console, make sure the VM is powered off, then unmount the ISO file as the CD-ROM device by changing the settings back to what they originally were before you began the installation process. Then, you can power on the VM and boot into your new Ubuntu installation.
The beauty of virtualization is that you can change your VMs configuration as needed. You can increase or decrease the amount of system RAM, reconfigure virtual devices, etc. You can also back up the VM file and the drive file for safe keeping. If your VM ever becomes infected with malware, corrupted, misconfigured or anything else just as serious, you can simply restore the backed up files and relaunch the VM. This makes it an ideal solution for software developers, web designers and security experts. They can each test software and security issues on a perfectly safe VM. No negative effects on the VM will effect your primary OS on your physical machine. Plus, you could choose to migrate one or more of your VMs to other machines or on a network drive and access it from any computer on your computer (the VMware Server Console would need to be installed on each machine you want to allow access to the VM from.
The only draw back is that your physical RAM must be shared with the VM when it is powered on and you must sacrifice part of your disk space as well. However, Ubuntu is not a demanding OS so it can be run effectively on only 256MB RAM. I recommend a host system with at least 1GB RAM. If your laptop only has 512MB RAM, you can probably upgrade it for less than $100. If you were to install a second installation of Windows on a VM, you will notice much more of a performance hit as it requires more horse power to run. In effect, both your VM and your physical system would slow down as a result. However, you don't have to worry about shutting down and rebooting to an OS menu or boot loader to decide which OS you want to run. With the VM, you can switch back and forth as needed without having to restart the host system. If you did want to install another instance of Windows, you will need a separate Windows installation disc to perform the install. With a Windows based VM on a Windows based host system, you can also choose to install VMware Tools. This is a collection of tools designed to help in working with the two Windows OSs at the same time. For instance, you gain the ability to use the drag-n-drop or copy/paste features of Windows across the two installations.
Good luck with your attempt at this procedure and be sure to let us know if you experience any problems. I realize this is only a rough text version of the steps required, but I will try and get a tutorial posted on the blog site as soon as I can, complete with screen shots or maybe even video captures of the process.
By the way, I went through this process myself as I was entering this post and I ended up with a good working Ubuntu based VM. As far as using Ubuntu now that you got it all setup, let us know if you need any further help. |
Edited by - Courante on 11/08/2007 00:06:33 |
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lonestar
Starting Member
12 Posts |
Posted - 11/09/2007 : 12:55:04
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Hello, Courante,
What a GREAT service you are doing for us out here who are "determined" to break the M$ habit!!!! Your tutorial is much more understandable than the ubuntu forums!!! They never did reply to my post??
I too thought vm server was part of workstation which one had to buy...Now on that page,, here's a newbie question???
Do I d/l the vm server for windows or linux? I'm assuming it's windows named "binary.exe"
I d/l the player to use with their ubuntu 7.10 appliance, which didn't work! I shall remove that.
Thanks again for all your help.
John in Dallas. |
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Courante
Senior Member
5349 Posts |
Posted - 11/10/2007 : 22:16:50
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You are correct. They are referring to the Operating System of the host PC, your physical computer. Therefore, the Linux option would be used to install Ubuntu (or any other OS) on a computer that already has a Linux distribution as its primary OS. Since your laptop is currently running Windows, you want the Windows (Binary.exe) installer. The Zip download (Binary.zip) is a compressed file containing installers for the VMware Server application/console as well as all the individual tools required for Server applications. This allows for a smaller file size and therefore, a quicker download. However, you would have to install everything separately. The Binary.exe file installs everything correctly in one setup operation, making the entire process much easier. So, it is worth the extra few minutes waiting for the download to complete.
As I said before, you may not be interested in running a virtual server, but it's nice to have all those server applications installed anyway. Plus, the VMware Server Console in my opinion is just more powerful than the VMware Player Console. This is especially true if you plan on storing your VM on a network, like on your desktop machine, to access it from your laptop. One way I used virtualization was to test a wiki application. I chose to try out the Deki Wiki application, which is designed to be implemented on a server to allow remote access to it from anywhere on the network. I used VMware Server to create a VM for the Linux platform. Then, I downloaded and installed the Deki Wiki application which they offered in two formats. One format provided everything separately, requiring the user to have extensive knowledge of working with servers in order to properly install all the services the wiki relies on. The other format provided a preconfigured VM with everything already setup. Basically, you decompress the VM files to your computer (any computer, not just a server), then open the VMware Server Console and point it to the proper file. You could then use the Console to power on the VM which runs on a Linux server distribution and the wiki is up an running. To access the wiki, you simply enter a local IP address into your web browser and log on. Voile, instant wiki on your own network. To access it from outside my network, I just setup port forwarding on my router to point it to the IP address of the wiki's VM. In VMware Server, I switched the wiki VM to use Network Address Translation (NAT) for its network connection, which allows port forwarding to the VM. So, by entering my router's IP address into a web browser from a remote machine, the connection is rerouted to the IP address of the VM, which in turn it pointed to the wiki application.
I know that all sounds pretty complicated, but it's just one example of the possibilities. With VMware Server, you can create your own home/work server on any PC without having to make a big purchase on server hardware. If you already have a server at home or at work, it probably has way more resources than you are currently using. It is estimated that most servers implemented in the work place only use a third, or less, of their system RAM, processing power and/or hard drive space. With virtualization, you can create multiple virtual servers on that one physical machine without any performance loss whatsoever. Instead of having one e-mail server, one intranet server, an Internet server, a Virtual Private Network (VPN) server, a wiki server or even more servers at several thousand dollars a piece, you can have many of these types of servers running virtually on a single machine. Plus, you can install the VMware Console on multiple computers on your network and use any one of them to manage the servers from there. You can see why virtualization is the most popular thing in the IT Departments of many big businesses, not to mention the many other advantages it brings to the table. |
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lonestar
Starting Member
12 Posts |
Posted - 11/13/2007 : 15:53:38
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Hello-Courante,
Here's another wrinkle!!!! I d/l vm server as you suggested, but when I tried to install----warning came up I don't have ms IIS installed and asked for it?? I.O.W. server capability!! That's not available in xp home sp2! Since I don't have OEM disks for this presario v2630us model just a recovery sectioned off....I DO have OEM disks for my Dell desktop, could I use that? It is xphomesp2 also...sp2 installed later,though....
Vmware gives the alternative of installing without IIS but it won't have the mgmt. interface, don't I need that???
Perhaps, there's a service I need to turn on?? Though, blackviper.com and other xp sites recommends turning OFF IIS since it's easily hacked!!!
This is getting MOST confusing!
Thanks for suggestions.
John in Dallas. |
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Courante
Senior Member
5349 Posts |
Posted - 11/13/2007 : 20:23:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Courante
When you are ready to begin, double-click the VMware Server installer on your desktop to begin setup. Be sure to click Run if prompted. Even though you may not be intending to use your VM as a server, you should simplify the installation process by choosing the Complete setup type over the Custom option. However, if you are prompted with a warning about the Microsoft Internet Information Services (IIS) not being detected on your system, you can skip this step if you only plan on running Ubuntu as a desktop OS. If you plan on using the server edition of Ubuntu, or otherwise setting up server software/services on the VM, you will need to follow the instructions given.
As stated above in my previous post, you can ignore the warning regarding the Microsoft Internet Information Services (IIS) missing from your system. Obtaining it is an unnecessary complication if you don't specifically need it for a server application.
Don't worry, I know it seems complicated, but it really isn't. The good thing is, you can't really mess anything up trying. Remember, this is only virtualization after all. If things don't work out, you always just delete the VM files and there's no harm done. This is a big contrast to the damage you can do by messing up a dual boot installation. |
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lonestar
Starting Member
12 Posts |
Posted - 11/15/2007 : 11:38:46
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Hello - Courante,
I apologize for bothering you re: IIS, I missed that in your posts.
I should have re-read them more throughly.
NOW - I did follow your instructions completely and things are working very WELL - accept as I attempt to install from the desktop icon, the world map comes up asking time/city, it won't go beyond that screen?
It appears to stall, disk is not turning. I'm installing from the CD of Ubuntu 7.10.
The cursor is "locked" into the vm screen and won't go anywhere. There doesn't appear to be any click boxes to remove the world map screen as it's stuck in the lower right corner of the vm screen. A few little dots are blinking representing cities, but clicking on them doesn't produce results!!?
But - while playing around with ubuntu as it's running on the live CD, in the vm, I'm happy to find my wireless """works""". It did not work before.
Thanks again for such great help.
John in Dallas. |
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lonestar
Starting Member
12 Posts |
Posted - 11/15/2007 : 19:01:46
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Hello-Courante and all
SUCCESS - SUCCESS!!
Hope all you don't mind my pestering you about this vm and Ubuntu. But,
if one follows Courante's instructions to the ""T"", you can succeed!
It took longer than I thought was necessary for "each" step in the installation process; I was impatient, thinking something was wrong!!
I now have a fully functioning Ubuntu 7.10 OS...I'm so pleased!!!
Now if I could figure out how to get my Robo form pass words into Ubuntu, I'd be a happy Senior Citizen.. I'll find a way, for sure...
I'm especially pleased to find wireless "works!" I knew that was a problem with BCM cards. I did add a 1GB ram, and let the vm use 512mb, since I probably won't use windows with the the vm, though it does work..That may be how I'll merge or borrow my pass words from Robo form??
This is lots of fun!! Firefox updated well...Flash installed OK.
This is a winner for sure...
Thanks Courante - the guys on the Ubuntu forums could use you, since they've never replied to any of my posts.....
This whole experience has more than paid for my Kim's Club costs.
Thanks everyone.
John in Dallas. |
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Courante
Senior Member
5349 Posts |
Posted - 11/17/2007 : 21:24:50
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Glad to see you got it working. Unfortunately, RoboForm does not support the Mac and Linux platforms. Since Ubuntu is a graphical Linux distribution, you will not be able to use RoboForm in your virtual machine.
Note: Anyone creating a VM with Windows would be able to share their RoboForm data using GoodSync. This is a program offered by the same developers of RoboForm that enables you to sync or backup your RoboForm data. Since VMs work like actual physical machines and are networkable, you could sync the data accross the network between the two. The only caveat is that you would have to purchase a second installation of RoboForm for the VM as again, it is considered a separate PC.
lonestar:
Thanks for the kind words. We are here to help because we like to, no other reason! Hopefully, I will get to posting up a tutorial like I originally planned. I am sure it would have been easier for you follow with screen shots and/or video of the steps involved. I apologize for that, but am glad to have helped you enough to get it working. |
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lonestar
Starting Member
12 Posts |
Posted - 11/21/2007 : 11:13:30
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Hello-Courante,
Thanks again for your help with my project. It DOES work well and I'm enjoying the experience.
BUT-there's always one of them!!! I have NO sound!! I've checked on every ubuntu forum I can find; no one has an idea, except check out my sound card???? OK-I did, now what??
The sound control on the panel is marked in red....Saying I have no gstreamer components-I've d/l them all and installed....All the alsa components required are there...
It seems ubuntu will not recognize my sound card, which is a legacy and or conexant amc type??? According to device mgr.
If I do lspci it displays: Host bridge: Intel corp. 440bx/zx/dx-82443bx/zx/dx/ host bridge (rev01)
PCI bridge: identical to above accept / AGP bridge (rev01)
ISA bridge: intel corp. 82371ab/eb/mb/ piixr isa (rev08)
The rest of the info is mostly referring to the vm ware....
Hope this means something to you? Certainly NOT me!!!
Thanks for suggestions.
John in Dallas.
====================================================================
OK;...Problem solved!!!!
Found out it was part of the vm ware that needed to be "turned" on..
http://www.vmware.com/support/ws3/doc/ws32_vidsound4.html
Just in case someone else has this problem...
Now - - enjoy a good Ubuntu experience...
And to ALL - happy Holidays.
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Edited by - lonestar on 11/21/2007 13:55:43 |
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Courante
Senior Member
5349 Posts |
Posted - 11/21/2007 : 15:32:42
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Good to see you are now figuring this stuff out on your own. It takes a while to get used to the fact that all the hardware for the VM is virtual. That means you can add and remove any devices at will. If you had installed Ubuntu directly onto your hard drive the normal way, or through a dual boot system, there's a chance your audio might not work at all. This is because Ubuntu drivers are not available for all hardware devices. By providing you with a virtual SoundBlaster sound card (the most popular brand of audio cards and therefore the best cross platform devices), VMware in essence works around this issue. Yet another benefit to virtual computing. If you look through online forums, you will find many examples of hardware incompatiblities with Ubuntu when installed natively. Didn't I tell you this would be fun to try?  |
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Courante
Senior Member
5349 Posts |
Posted - 11/23/2007 : 10:15:50
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Anyone interested in using virtualization for running an alternate OS may want to listen to the following audio on the subject. The most interesting point is the mention of a new Linux distribution called Klikit that is based on Kubuntu. Many reviews from users state that this is the easiest distribution they have ever tried. It supposedly adapts easier to your system and provides an easy to use package installer/uninstaller called the Storehouse. The first two links will allow you to download the MP3 files of the audio and the third will take you to the Klikit web site where you can read more about it and download the ISO of the Live CD (actually 1.01GB on DVD). You can install it virtually as shown previously in this thread.
Note: To download the audio, right-click on the links and choose the appropriate option to download the file (in IE, Save Target As;in Firefox, Save Link As). Otherwise, the audio will stream inside a web page.
Part 1
Part 2
Klikit.org
I will be test running this distribution myself and post back regarding my own experience with it in comparison to Ubuntu. |
Edited by - Courante on 11/23/2007 10:29:13 |
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mack123
Junior Member
254 Posts |
Posted - 11/23/2007 : 10:39:41
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| I can't get the klikit site to open. |
Edited by - mack123 on 11/24/2007 00:39:57 |
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mack123
Junior Member
254 Posts |
Posted - 11/23/2007 : 10:47:00
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| Okay, now I have it, but it only shows downloads for DVD. I need CD. |
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Courante
Senior Member
5349 Posts |
Posted - 11/23/2007 : 21:55:31
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The size of the Live disc is too large for CD (1.01GB). If you are going to be installing it via virtualization, this is no problem as you can still mount the ISO image as a CD/DVD drive on the virtual machine (VM) and run/install it from there. Otherwise, you will need a DVD drive on the machine you are installing to.
I have successfully installed Klikit on a new VM in my VMware console. One note though, it wouldn't install if I chose the Other Linux option for the preparation of the VM (Kubuntu and Klikit are not given as options). However, it worked fine when I chose the Ubuntu option. Since Klikit is built upon Kubuntu, and Kubuntu is built upon Ubuntu, this option seems to work best. This seems like a pretty nice distribution, but I have not yet tried much with it, just took a look around a bit. Once I get the network working on it, I can begin fully testing it out. Also, I installed it on the same laptop where I have Ubuntu installed on a VM. I allotted it the same resources, 256MB RAM and a 10GB fully allocated hard disk file. As long as they are not both running at the same time, there will not be much of a performance hit provided that you can afford the total disk space for your VMs and host OS. However, I may allocate more RAM to Klikit as it appears to be a bit slower than my Ubuntu. With a larger sized Live CD (the first I have ever seen distributed on DVD), the OS itself probably requires more RAM than other distributions. In fact, the installation itself also took much longer than that of Ubuntu. |
Edited by - Courante on 11/24/2007 11:41:53 |
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lonestar
Starting Member
12 Posts |
Posted - 11/30/2007 : 13:19:03
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Hello - Courante & All,
I'm really enjoying my new Ubuntu OS on my Compaq laptop; d/l Kubuntu dekstop, since I like the KDE desktop config. better....I wonder where the Gnome went??I think it was deleted, it installed so fast?
Preparing to install another vm on my Dell desktop, since it's much faster and more room to "play!" I found this entry in Fresh Ubuntu, I think: apt-get install-Kubuntu-desktop - that's where and how I installed on my laptop. It said it's still ubuntu but with the KDE config. Looks like the old Knoppix KDE desktop.
Have I a similar config. as Kilkit you mentioned, Courante?
Look forward to more info. on your trials and new software.
John in Dallas. |
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